Yoshizen's Blog

PS :

Following the previous Post, there was some exchange of opinion in Emails.

And this is the extract  in which,  I found,  it is highlighting the point of

” How to make a perfect music piece which will hit the guts of others “

————-

Though, important point is, —- What  are the guts.

Everybody got more or less the same guts, having it

tens of thousands of years.

Its mean, what will hit it, has been tried and sorted out

spending thousands of years of time, by millions of people.

That is how most of the culture in the world came to

have pentatonic —– same conclusion.

The reason is, it was written in the Dharma. ( Ref; Harmony

in Dharma )

And the guts is ruled by the Dharma, not by one’s brain.

Deviate from the Dharma, yet make perfect one is hard,

if not impossible. ——–

—–

Equidistant Tonal system was perfected in the time of  J.S. Bach, though it has been only utilized for

the convenience of key-tone change.   And its use became universal, despite of the existence of some

discord (which has been simply avoided to occur as Taboo, by the composer.)

So that,  Arnold  Schoenberg is the first one to fully explore the musical possibility of its system.

But, big but, do you or anybody on the street, ever listen, let alone remember his music ?

Some (very rare person, may be a student / ex-student in classic music) may say

“How about his organ music [ The Ascension ] it is spiritually very striking isn’t it ?”.

I can agree, its sound very spiritual though,  as I wrote in ” Blank Space ” it is because of slow-moving,

continuous high tone, which is vague and undefinable,  hence our brain abandon to define its

meanings,  then start to feel  ” Something Unknown there”.

This very feeling, “abandon to impose own thinking, and leave the Mind open” is happen to be

the same to Buddhist’s Mushin —— we describe it  Spiritual.——- All of us share more or less

the same perception and the same guts.  Simple  😀

—– So, departing  from the tradition, and explore complete freedom in sound making,  is a good attempt,

though,  better not forget, we and yourself are still within the Dharma’s  rule.

Other’s guts is under this Dharma too, so that better chose the direction accordingly.

( The Expression —– which is also common with others, mean Communicable, has to be

emanated from own guts” Blank Space ” too —— not from the thinking or technical possibility )

Please read the Post ” Freedom in Restriction “. (Under a category [Music] )

___/\___

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6 Responses

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  1. jagannathan said, on October 5, 2010 at 14:52

    yoshizen

    i think to say all the possibilities have been explored and geniuses have separated the good from the bad already in music over a million years is what can i say…please fill the blanks ;)….if so what is left for us to do? just play bach and mozart and beethoven? why bother trying? instead just pay some1 good to play it for us and just listen (which is what most of us do anyway).

    but clearly this cant be the end.

    nobody predicted the computer. all the aristotles, da vincis and newtons completely missed it. and the computer is the ultimate chameleon. it transforms fields that it touches. is it not a dharma to explore what it can uniquely offer to music by programming it?

    to ask if ‘is computer music, music?’ is a wrong question. you have to look at the whole package. the program, the programmer, the performer, the user (which has to be you too)…

    not all music need be played in churches of one kind or another….many ethnic music is composed on the spot and in fact totally blends with nature so much that you dont know what is music and what is nature…..that is dharma of music no?

    for me bach music is like all music. some tunes i like. some i find incomprehensible. why should i take anybody’s opinion that he is a genius so struggle to ‘understand’ it? and why feel bad if i dont get it?

    galileo when asked by the church to disown his theories because they go against the theory of “God created the wonderful universe” he says “then why did God give me the brain to think?”

    i told you yoshizen music is like religion. music discussion always ends up in a fight…..hehehehe.

    • yoshizen said, on October 5, 2010 at 18:38

      Regardless, whether the audio-signal was infinite bit digital recording or delta-sigma
      two bit sampled sound or heavily processed signal —- all comes down to the speaker
      which was made by the most unpredictable organic material / paper corn.
      So, I’ve stopped to spend money to audio system long ago. If perfection is not exist,
      the cheapest would be the choice. I’m listening radio or any music on the speaker I’ve
      found in a skip, placed up-side-down on the tall clay plant pot. Still it is usable 😀

      I wouldn’t say any end of music and never said any limit of creativity, far from it, I’ve
      wrote “even using the same pentatonic, just from the 5 notes (+ octave hi-low etc)
      non of the music ever created in the history all over the world, is the same “.
      Possibility is infinitum.
      Yet still, even from the first few notes, we can distinguish many many good tune.
      Its mean, among the infinite number of possibility, still good one stand out.

      30 years ago, I listened a lecture of Leonard Bernstein on a radio. He explained
      the music languages and how its works. I was utterly amazed, and in fact
      somewhat annoyed to know how our psyche was easily directed, manipulated
      by the sound / music. The film music is the typical sample —– otherwise he
      wouldn’t be hired to compose.
      ( You may remember the sound —— chi chi chi chi chi, in Hitchcock film Psycho.
      How effective it was to rise the tension ans blood-pressure, and that sound even
      conditioned our mind after seen it ) 😀
      Music psychology and the Musicology is standing between the source sound
      and our psyche / perception / guts. And the mass-media film and the perception
      of the people are the de-fact evidence of that the musicology works.
      —— its mean, the mass psyche is more or less common with the guts.

      All the music has its back ground culture / environment / Dharma though, since
      the human, its physics and the sensory are the same, the perception, hence
      the music language is more or less the same. Favourite choice may not be the
      same though, as long as people got ears, good music sound good.
      Whether its came from the radio or the live sound played around you ——-
      still sound is sound, that is how universality of the music works.

      Indian drum rhythm pattern Tala was created with the possibility of permutation —–
      not necessary the needs of music, hence only few hundred among the thousand
      were actually used.—— Possible rhythm pattern is not the same to good rhythm.
      On the end, the guts feeling, whether it is suite for the music(and good to dance)
      is all but the matter.

      • jagannathan said, on October 5, 2010 at 21:15

        Actually all stereo music especially recorded music is art of fooling the ear. Stereo sound comes out of left and right speakers while the sound you hear live is in 3D — comes from all directions. As you rightly found out sound feels different depending on where you sit in a church or auditorium. I think its best to experience it live however bad the musician 😀

        I think you misunderstand what I mean by possibility of computer sound. With MIDI input from a live musician, a computer synthesiser can play Bach well.

        But that is not interesting to me.

        I am searching for the ‘native medium’ of the computer sound. Dharma if you will. And I’m listening and waiting and staring at the blank space for it. I only know what it is not. I trust I will know when I see it.

        Music is not just melody and rhythm. Timbre (ie quality of sound, colour of sound) is important too and timbre is something that can be explored in computer sound very flexibly at least with my free software din (for your readers din can be found at: http://code.google.com/p/din)

        New methods of changing pitch & volume of sound, new methods for delaying and remixing sound (new kinds of canons? 🙂 …….what to do with them is a nice problem to have rather than say no use its only quantity no qualitative difference so I’m not going to listen……

        Ultimately to me music is what we can make someone listen to for say 5-7 minutes without them booing at you. Few days back I saw a program on Ralph Vaughan Williams (famous English composer) on the BBC and I couldnt enjoy his music at all. Whose fault is it? If all the ‘experts’ are enjoying it – am I supposed to feel I am unsophisticated? But at the same time I have heard his “Lark Ascending” piece and loved the first few phrases of violin imitating a lark flying above a field..I think its as good as the Mozart or Beethoven or Bach. The rest of it though is ‘crap’. Hmmm its complicated.

        Any way there is hardly any piece of Western classical music that you can dance to. Like put ur hair down and dance to. Your Bachs, Mozarts, Beethovens are all boring sods hahahaha. You to have sit tight and listen or maybe drive a car and listen. Thats why rock & roll and electronic dance music were huge in 20th and 21st century — thats my theory anyway 😀

        But do you know weirdly computer musicians — the academic computer music types at least imho —- try to be the new Bachs. Suits their teeny-weeny laptop kit. They dont get up and dance either. Their heads buried into their LCDs. No wonder ppl ask are they sending e-mails or updating their Facebook profiles hahaha.

        —-jagan.

  2. jagannathan said, on October 5, 2010 at 15:02

    the last 2 posts however have encouraged me to seek perfection in what i do so thank you 🙂

    an example of ‘whole package’ i talked about is: the work is a robot that makes the music.

    if that robot played bach do we say aaaah big sit, any music student can play bach?

    the fact that this robot is playing bach is cool. —- but now imagine this scenario —- the robot playing good music —– wow that will hut the guts surely! —- no? you sad man haha.

    • yoshizen said, on October 5, 2010 at 16:41

      Before acoustic, electrical recording was invented, there was a mechanical recording
      of piano, called Auto-Piano. Punching the holes into paper when the key was pressed. Then run through this paper and make the hummer move in the position of hole and recreated pretty accurate replay of the piano music which demonstrates even a subtle difference of each musician on the same tune. ——- is this a gimmick ? or serious music ? ——- who care. Anyhow it is only a recording left and nobody know what was the real sound.
      Whether Bach was played by Robot or human, who care if its good, its good.
      As most of the people listening the same Bach through audio and a speaker —— how
      do they know it is genuine. That’s why I came Europa to listen the same music in live.
      ( and found, the same music in the same organ, the sound different where I sat in
      different place —— due to the direction of reflection and resonance of church hall.)
      ——- who knows the original, genuine sound of Synthesizer music, as non of audio
      system and speaker produce the same sound.
      On the end, nothing is the matter, but only the end result count. If its good, its good.

  3. yoshizen said, on October 5, 2010 at 23:08

    About the sound itself you know far better than me. My interest is more on the
    human interaction / cultural aspect of the music, hence my interest toward the ethnic
    music. ——- didn’t I tell you, in my observation, the rhythm of white American music
    originated from the step, hence it developed to the rock. But the rhythm of Afro
    music was originated from the movement of bottom. ( If you dance you can see this)
    Why the American rhythm was from step —– since it was originated from Irish dance.
    ——–
    You can make demonic dynamic dance out of some western classics such as
    Carl Olff’s Carmina Burana etc. Once I encountered Richard Strauss’ Also Sprach
    Zarathustra live mixed with Jungle, it made great dance —– you got to see it, not reading. ( Google it and listen those)
    ——–
    I ‘m not fond of Romantic School Classics. Mozart afterward. So, I’ll go before them.
    ( Baroque~ Bach ) but I give an exception for Requiem of Mozart in which he
    removed all the pretense and the mask and returned to a dying naked human.
    —– in contrast, most of western classics having too much cosmetics and less
    human psyche.
    What I meant in ” Good music strike the guts ” —— make them listen 7 minutes 😀


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